Unlike Richard Garriott (sry ), I'm not a big believer in Instanced MMO gaming, it of course has its uses, but for me its a short cut for limited technology and production times, that turns games that for all intense and purposes should be simulations to allow characters to experience the roles they choose, into system based games, where players play the short comings and benefits of the games systems instead of the game. Of course, this isn't the total cause there are many other short cuts, but as you add more of these short cuts in for whatever reason you take away anything natural about the virtual enviroment, for me that leaves a game more akin to pac-man or poker, where its more about advancement in the game and strategies for success than breaking from the bonds of reality and playing - if you've ever seen hard core gamers play, they make take pride and have fun, but having fun doesn't mean you're playing, for them they work the games.
This is the pro of single player games, they have engrossing stories that can cover these short comings, but with any MMOG, having the player envolved directly in a story when other characters want to, gain a new skill, increment to a new ability or shot something for 20 minutes before dinner, attachment to a story is impossible to keep for all the time the player spends gaming, for most games even keeping this wool over the eyes of the player so they cant see the mechanics at work for more than a fraction of the time is too difficult a task for them.
So, thats my little reasoning for Free-roaming gameplay, would anyone like to debate the pros of Instanced gaming 'over' Free-Roaming? Or give a little insight into your own beliefs?
I'II leave you with this, as Richard Garriott said at E3'05, with Science fiction you want as few cheats to reality as possible to ensure the believability of your game, knowing you're in an instanced space locked away in your own little world - for me, thats one of the biggest cheats of all.
John Bourne is ... available in a limited capacity.
[ image disabled ] E N L I S T - T O D A Y ! Esseri Senzienti Liberi Alleati [RAF] Lt. John "Chourst" Bourne, Lord of Randomness
I try to kick as much ass as I can. - With what little I have.
It's pretty late for me so I can't get tooo into this at the moment, but I'll add my own two cents.
Based upon how involving a plotline or story-arc is within ANY game, instance or no, the experience will still feel immersive and retain a quality of escaping into another world. I sincerely hope the immersion value of TR will be as high as Gariott is promising, taking on a level single-player story invlovement that most MMO's are gosly lacking in. During Cuppa's latest interview, I became rather riveted to my computer when she mentioned the fact that choices players make as far as mission objectives and goals are concerned will greatly influence the evironment the players are in. On top of that, you have the fact that Gariott has been really pushing for the reduction of the tedious tasks that other games make you go through and that take away from the story and general feel of the game. That actually rings closer to something you might see in an RPG like Neverwinter Nights or the like so to me it definitely sounds exciting.
I personally lean a little bit more towards instance play as the concept has always felt to me to inherently regard the player's time as something to respect, not abuse. When you consider the issues of "spawning" once you eliminated the instance, I generally felt that took more away than added anything. When you're on "X" quest to go kill this "X" badguy....but you can't because someone else from that persistant world just killed him five minutes ago, I feel more like I'm just playing a simple game when I have to wait around for 5 minutes while the "spawn" timer resets.
At other times it gets especially bad when you're completing a quest that's taken you an hour to hack your way through, die near the end, only to trek back and realise that everything has "respawned" again in your path and it's going to take another hour to get back to where you were. That to me shows little regard for the player's precious time and to me has always seemed like more of a shortcut than instancing the mission or quest. Throwing a simple respawn timer onto a group of mobs feels like more of a half-arsed effort rather than try and create a comprehensive scaling difficulty system to account for the fact that a player might have a friend or two along to help complete the objective.
Anyway, that's all I can think of, but I'll post more if something else comes to mind. [ image disabled ]
I agree with the 'half-arsed effort'. My love of free-roaming gameplay isn't really related to whats been accomplished thus far, respawn timers, boss-monsters are all short cuts to reality that are used too often in a plethora of games because they are generally recognized as MMORPG corner stones. And infact when any new community for a developing MMORPG arises, you can guarantee that it wont be long before the community starts talking Boss Mobs, spawning (theres actually a very personally infuriating topic on this at PTR right now - Thrax arn't 'AI agressors' who just 'spawn' and move towards the 'nearest target', they're supposed to be fast offense/defense shock troops who air drop into an area etc). I'm a big believer in building a world how 'you' want it developed, and letting the player play inside that world the way 'they' want to, but as a developer you need to understand implements of control over the players experience, for better of worse degrade the virtual reality experience.
It feels like, because many vocal players don't know what makes a good game, only what once made a good game, and because too many players interact negatively inside a virtual world, that everyone is automatically supposed to miss out. A little strange considering the game that really launched all of this was, A. original and B. had incredible player freedom.
The MMOGs I see rocking the future of the genre are games like, "Infinity: The Quest for Earth", a space, air and ground game, with seamless travel between each, realistically sized planets of which there are potentially 2million plus. You give players tools inside such a game-verse and watch them develop a plot heirarchy, so detailed, with so much depth and so very interactive it would be incomparable to any singular story overlaid on individuals at different times with the requirement of using instanced spaces to deliver individual specific information to characters.
John Bourne is ... available in a limited capacity.
[ image disabled ] E N L I S T - T O D A Y ! Esseri Senzienti Liberi Alleati [RAF] Lt. John "Chourst" Bourne, Lord of Randomness
I try to kick as much ass as I can. - With what little I have.
I want to see somebody (if not TR) that combines the two. I have no idea how it'd be done because I feel in over my head after reading all that lol. But they have to be combined well. Course I could be saying absolutely nothing even tho I've been saying something. And I don't think it would be terribly hard to combine the two, I just can't think of any ways right now cause my head is on the verge of hurting lol.
Edit:If this doesn't make sense just delete it cause I'm on the verge of being confused also and I'm not completely sure why.
[ Edited Mon Jan 15 2007, 05:24PM ] [ image disabled ] "We shall defend our island, whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills;we shall never surrender." -Sir Winston Churchill When there is no light, we shall be the light. When hope fades, we shall become hope. And if humanity is to be judged by its final stand, then let us fight! "A culling is at hand human. Consider this the overture to my symphony!" -Cabal Silence is golden,duct tape is silver,and plastiques are the final solution.
Oh and this was addressed (sort of) in the interview. Cuppa said that in the early game that about 60% would be world and 40% instanced and after a certain point it would flip (40% world, 60% instanced).
[ image disabled ] "We shall defend our island, whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills;we shall never surrender." -Sir Winston Churchill When there is no light, we shall be the light. When hope fades, we shall become hope. And if humanity is to be judged by its final stand, then let us fight! "A culling is at hand human. Consider this the overture to my symphony!" -Cabal Silence is golden,duct tape is silver,and plastiques are the final solution.
I'm wondering how much of the bases will be instanced? All interiors? Will there be much in the way of spectacular architecture? Or Big blob type buildings with insides displaying properties similar to the Tardis.
John Bourne is ... available in a limited capacity.
[ image disabled ] E N L I S T - T O D A Y ! Esseri Senzienti Liberi Alleati [RAF] Lt. John "Chourst" Bourne, Lord of Randomness
I try to kick as much ass as I can. - With what little I have.
I really hope its mostly "dropzone" sort of things... where you land outside.. and have to work your way into a factory/landing pad/subterranian base/Supervillain Volcano Enclave....ect...
[ image disabled ] "Give me thy sword, that I may be One more soul that still stands free" ~Jack Jesse, Prisoner of War, WWII " (my grandfather)
Since "dropzone" was mentioned and the dropship has to do with LZs I can say this. Anyone ever notice that there is a swiveling cannon on top of the troop box that the dropship drops? Its in one of the videos. Just noticed it today....
[ image disabled ] "We shall defend our island, whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills;we shall never surrender." -Sir Winston Churchill When there is no light, we shall be the light. When hope fades, we shall become hope. And if humanity is to be judged by its final stand, then let us fight! "A culling is at hand human. Consider this the overture to my symphony!" -Cabal Silence is golden,duct tape is silver,and plastiques are the final solution.
Good eyes... that could prove fun, although in true military fashion its probably a peeshooter that jams as soon as it realises its about to see real combat.
Automated defense cannon maybe? Could've used those at the D-Day landings. I wonder if those drop tubs will be called boats.... *muses*
John Bourne is ... available in a limited capacity.
[ image disabled ] E N L I S T - T O D A Y ! Esseri Senzienti Liberi Alleati [RAF] Lt. John "Chourst" Bourne, Lord of Randomness
I try to kick as much ass as I can. - With what little I have.
), I'm not a big believer in Instanced MMO gaming, it of course has its uses, but for me its a short cut for limited technology and production times, that turns games that for all intense and purposes should be simulations to allow characters to experience the roles they choose, into system based games, where players play the short comings and benefits of the games systems instead of the game. Of course, this isn't the total cause there are many other short cuts, but as you add more of these short cuts in for whatever reason you take away anything natural about the virtual enviroment, for me that leaves a game more akin to pac-man or poker, where its more about advancement in the game and strategies for success than breaking from the bonds of reality and playing - if you've ever seen hard core gamers play, they make take pride and have fun, but having fun doesn't mean you're playing, for them they work the games.
Anyone ever notice that there is a swiveling cannon on top of the troop box that the dropship drops? Its in one of the videos. Just noticed it today....
