Please forgive me for the quote from a popular American Civil War motion picture. I thought it was appropriate.
Ghost Hack posted this quote in another thread which I thought was worthy of discussion:
"Ghost Hack" wrote ...
"I just want to be reassured that the game play will not harken back to the american civil war...."
This is a serious problem now that I think about it, especially with the sticky system and the stat driven gameplay. This quote from the Stratics Knowledge Base does give me a sigh of relief though:
"Stratic Knowledgebase" wrote ...
"The combat system is very simple. Damage is determined by skills while accuracy can be effected by movement."
The negative side to this is if the accuracy bonus or loss while moving and firing is imbalanced with moving while being fired at. What this will lead to is the same autofire menace we have from other MMORPG's. Hopefully, the diversification of weapons, Flamethrowers as an example, will add variety.
Promoting realistic movement via this system is troublesome. This isn't really the players fault if the developers create realistic smooth animations. Because as we all know, awkward player movement can break the theme, such as crouch jumping in FPS’s like Counter Strike. Eventually once TR has been out long enough whatever idea anyone had of TR’s gameplay will be supplanted by the 'norm'.
An example of this is Dolphin Diving in BF2, where a player would jump and prone in mid air for accuracy. At first it was odd in a quasi-realistic themed FPS but eventually it was accepted as the ‘norm’, though it is still frowned upon by most players.
I site GUNz Online as a particular oddity in this case. A player could dash jump by pressing one of the movement keys, WASD, twice like in Unreal Tournament. There was also wall-walking, a player would run along the walls, and other acrobatic tricks. A few players from the Korean version of the game, where it originated, found out they could reset the dash if they quickly swapped weapons. As a result a player could keep indefinitely the air by swapping weapons. The gameplay was enhanced tremendously by this as pushing keys that quickly required fast reflexes and actually hitting anything while going that fast demanded skill. Reacting to this, the developers removed the "bug" from the game. This was met by a large amount of resistance from the player base. As a result the developers placed the ability back in, everyone has been having fun with this unforeseen “bug” ever since.
Do all of you think similar gameplay intricacies will develop in TR? And if so, how will it manifest itself?
I don't think TR will ever hold the same value to movement as Gunz does, although comparitively I hope it will have a similar learning curve, but for that to happen movement needs to be more than just a basic implementation. I'd like to see rolls, possibly dives and other moves partially initiated based on terrain and events, as with GUNz, so that moves are available in the right situations, players can't abuse them and that they're accessible.
One of my main concerns though is sticky targetting in reverse... How do the Bane aim? Do they automatically get a hit on a target if they are aimed at them, and damage is based on skill? - If this is the case, it basically makes movement pointless, as the only movement that seems to effect damage with an accuracy modifier is that of the shooter and not the target (hopefully I'm wrong, because its been assumed in the past that target movement would play a role, but nothing has been substantiated).
I also hope that seeing a target doesn't mean they can automatically see you if facing the right direction, cover and too an extent distance should make it more difficult to spot the enemy visually and for them to spot you. I'm worried though that a radar system as shown in the gameplay demos will be used to justify MOBs in a defined area of contact with the player all charging whether they really see or not... like GuildWars, and like the American Civil War and War of Independance just two masses of troops pounding with their best damage overtime.
John Bourne is ... available in a limited capacity.
[ image disabled ] E N L I S T - T O D A Y ! Esseri Senzienti Liberi Alleati [RAF] Lt. John "Chourst" Bourne, Lord of Randomness
I try to kick as much ass as I can. - With what little I have.
They mentioned awhile ago that they will not have "movement effective accuracy", or, accuracy at all. As people said it was odd to have someone targetted directly, then miss. As one of the biggest falls of Neocron, a FPSRPG, where you shot them, but dice decided if it hit or not. They said it will effect the amount of damage you do now. So if your running and shooting, you will do less damage then crouching.
What I really hope not to see, is just a bunch of people croaching in the middle of the open. I really hope they add purpose to bunkers, trees, walls, ect. Maybe even some odd system where you can link your character to a tree, then spin out quick, fire a few shots, then spin back. And if they add a AI reaction time, could be really fun, while Thrax would be low, so it would work great against them. Then maybe like a elite Bane meant for speed, would mean they get perfect shots off you right away, while your taking a chance, meaning staying out and opening fire would be a better choice. Just adds a bit of strategy.
The shadows always consume the weak!
Hence my comment on reverse targeting... If we don't miss, unless we aim away from the target, do Bane also never miss, what decides a Banes accuracy prior to locking a target? etc If you cant effectively dodge, moving is then pointless and we have the civil war in space, making a potentially action packed game statistical and boring.
Moves partially initiated based on terrain and events, would be cool yes.
John Bourne is ... available in a limited capacity.
[ image disabled ] E N L I S T - T O D A Y ! Esseri Senzienti Liberi Alleati [RAF] Lt. John "Chourst" Bourne, Lord of Randomness
I try to kick as much ass as I can. - With what little I have.
I dont think regular Thrax soldiers should dodge much. Otherwise were going to have those damn cops in GTA dive straight into my car kind of actions.
The shadows always consume the weak!
I think its clear though... that anyone who say the "latest TR vid" stood there dumbfounded, as we watched men and woman crouching and standing in good file, blasting away, while the bane sat 20 yards away doing the exact same thing.
that is not the game Ive been waiting for.
[ image disabled ] "Give me thy sword, that I may be One more soul that still stands free" ~Jack Jesse, Prisoner of War, WWII " (my grandfather)
What a great point Fractured and Borne, especially on the AI Bane targeting. From watching the videos I can surmise that the targeting is based on the innate abilities of the specific mob type in question. It will require further investigation when the game is released to the public.
Everything I said in the first post is moot, especially after watching this video:
Due to the enemies, a player will have to move especially against the ‘Lobster Gorillas’. The only reason they lined up in the Game Play Short was probably for added dramatic effect.
Off Topic:
There is another issue which demands research:
Apparently, the loot is dropped based on how much damage was done to the mob. This will prove troublesome for the Specialists which focus on healing. It's really off topic for this post though. I think I will put in my reply on the Stratics forums for the interview on W00T this Wednesday.
I have not heard this Obiyer, but I will look into it, because in a war game, this is troublesome. I think it would be more "team" damage, then anything.
The shadows always consume the weak!
Look at the E3 2005 Game Demo Part 1 in the TRTV Channel on YouTube. In the last 30 seconds the individual giving the presentation states:
"There's actually a time based system ... for the first 10 seconds its for the person who did the most damage to that creature then it switches to the party then everyone on the map..."
